I’ve never seen Gandalf as Jesus…what am I missing
You can choose, and many people do, to read LOTR as a loose christian allegory. It’s no secret that Lewis and Tolkien were contemporaries, and both men of deep faith. If you would like to see Gandalf as a christ figure, it’s not terribly difficult. He guides and advises the characters of the story in the path of absolute good, even in the face of personal peril does he not advocate compromising the morality presented in the story, however he also leaves the characters to their free will.
The balrog story can of course be seen as the sacrifice and resurrection. The Balrog, woken by the greed of the dwarves can easily represent the sins of man (and the cost thereof). After battling to the death with this foe, he is transformed and returns in a greater and purer form.
Of course Tolkien doesn’t make it as easy as Lewis does. Gandalf is fallible and not omniscient. He likes his pipe and his wine, he carries a sword and knows how to use it, etc, but the relation to the Christ figure is there, if you care to look for it. Personally I always felt the most revealing bit of dialogue for Gandalfs character is in regards to Smeagol….
Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends
So yeah….ok that covers my geek moment for the night. Off to work.
Not every resurrection myth harks back to Christianity. It wasn’t even the first resurrection myth. The ancient Egyptians held a 3-day ceremony every year, in the spring as they planted crops, in worship of Osiris. The planting symbolised Osiris’ death, the myth tells that he came to rule the Underworld, gives life to the crops etc,, and will eventually be reborn. He was the father of Horus, the “saviour”.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If all you know is Christianity, you’re going to see it everywhere you look, even if it’s not there … 8)
@Josh – Exactly. Of course Brian has a completely correct point, the resurrection mythos are universal in human culture, along with a sort of standard “set” of human interpretations / personifications of events. Your average sociology geek will tell you that people seem to have a racial memory that is interpreted through different cultures with strikingly similar results. Personally I have a great interest in the universal nature of “The Flood” in all ancient cultures. It seems natural to have a “destruction mythos” as part of any belief system, yet from corner to corner across the earth, it is always the great flood. Of course a lot of folks in rather natty jackets will happily tell you that this is indicative of any number of things, except the obvious, that perhaps there actually was a global flood…..funny that.
Where was I? Yes, Tolkien and Lewis both being men of strong convictions would certainly draw from their own belief system, so a resurrection allegory is naturally based in the story of Christ, as one certainly has to include the nature of the author in any analysis of literature.
I really need coffee. You people and your warm beds…. y’all realize I just got home from work right? :P
A part of me would have to with Wizard Jesus, but Lion Jesus could be pretty cunning and definitely strike with holy claws before Wizard Jesus was able to transcend into an unstoppable force. So I would have to agree with the last panel and hope we never have to find out.
If Max had said Gandalf the Gray, I would pick him. He wears down the lion with his power before before being ripped to shreds and then comes back as Gandalf the White to finish the job.
Sounds like an episode idea for Deadliest Warrior!
Id say the only chance lion has against wizard would be if he could stalk & pounce & take wizard down before he had a chance to cast anything
@Noxx–while the nature of the author needs to be considered in analyzing literature, you also have consider the author’s intent with the work. While Tolkien was deeply religious, he also was a scholar whose research in historical linguistics and Anglo-Saxon literature led him to write the Lord of the Rings as a mythology for Britain. He pulled in influences from many cultures, especially early Germanic mythology, with which he was obsessed early in his academic career.
Lewis, on the other hand, was writing a Christian allegory with Narnia, so the direct connection of Aslan to Christ is much more solid than to Gandalf’s character arc.
I’d have to say Aslan comes out on top here, just by the nature of the two characters and how they’re presented in their respective works. Aslan is the more overt Christ allegory; he encompasses not only the sacrifice and resurrection of Christ but also Christ’s messianic and divine nature. So Aslan is in fact God made flesh for Narnia, in the same way that Christ is God made flesh for our world.
But while Gandalf and his fellow wizards are clearly among the most powerful beings in Middle Earth, they are kept quite distinct from Iluvatar (God) and even below the Ainur (angels). Essentially Gandalf represents the Christian ideal of sacrifice and resurrection, without ever actually achieving the Godhead of Christ (and Aslan).
And for what it’s worth, in the big Christ-allegory Smackdown, they’d both destroy Billy Budd. Just sayin.
Noxx- There are plenty of folks in natty jackets who will tell you that the flood might have been an actual event in history too. The Black Sea Deluge theory is just one of many theories that I think might be plausible. Another is the draining of Lake Agassiz at the end of the last Ice Age. Another, less dramatic possibility is that ancient cultures were trying to explain the discovery of seashells and fish fossils found on mountain tops.
There are plenty of theories out there. What I think you won’t find is an accepted theory that supports the idea of a complete, and worldwide flood. If nothing else, such a theory begs the question, what happened to all the water?
sooo I wanted to comment but then realized i was outclassed by all of the guys on here actually discussing the idea of Aslan vs Gandalf….I need to study this discussion further.
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I’ve never seen Gandalf as Jesus…what am I missing?
You can choose, and many people do, to read LOTR as a loose christian allegory. It’s no secret that Lewis and Tolkien were contemporaries, and both men of deep faith. If you would like to see Gandalf as a christ figure, it’s not terribly difficult. He guides and advises the characters of the story in the path of absolute good, even in the face of personal peril does he not advocate compromising the morality presented in the story, however he also leaves the characters to their free will.
The balrog story can of course be seen as the sacrifice and resurrection. The Balrog, woken by the greed of the dwarves can easily represent the sins of man (and the cost thereof). After battling to the death with this foe, he is transformed and returns in a greater and purer form.
Of course Tolkien doesn’t make it as easy as Lewis does. Gandalf is fallible and not omniscient. He likes his pipe and his wine, he carries a sword and knows how to use it, etc, but the relation to the Christ figure is there, if you care to look for it. Personally I always felt the most revealing bit of dialogue for Gandalfs character is in regards to Smeagol….
Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends
So yeah….ok that covers my geek moment for the night. Off to work.
I find it incredibly important to post this funny, relevant video about Aslan. It’s Narnia in 5 seconds and it’s pure brilliance: http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/5-second-movies/121-chronicles-of-naria
Sorry, this comic just reminded me of that. :) Also, great comic! Wizard Jesus would definitely win. Lion Jesus can’t beat that awesome staff!
I think Lion Jesus and Wizard Jesus would be pals.
Not every resurrection myth harks back to Christianity. It wasn’t even the first resurrection myth. The ancient Egyptians held a 3-day ceremony every year, in the spring as they planted crops, in worship of Osiris. The planting symbolised Osiris’ death, the myth tells that he came to rule the Underworld, gives life to the crops etc,, and will eventually be reborn. He was the father of Horus, the “saviour”.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If all you know is Christianity, you’re going to see it everywhere you look, even if it’s not there … 8)
@Brian: Isn’t it amazing how so many cultures seemed to be looking in the same direction?
@Brian: but when the resurrection myth in question was written by a Christian, I think it’s a good bet that it was intended as a Christ allegory, no?
I’m with @James on this one.
And hilarious dialogue, Mr. Molebash!
@Josh – Exactly. Of course Brian has a completely correct point, the resurrection mythos are universal in human culture, along with a sort of standard “set” of human interpretations / personifications of events. Your average sociology geek will tell you that people seem to have a racial memory that is interpreted through different cultures with strikingly similar results. Personally I have a great interest in the universal nature of “The Flood” in all ancient cultures. It seems natural to have a “destruction mythos” as part of any belief system, yet from corner to corner across the earth, it is always the great flood. Of course a lot of folks in rather natty jackets will happily tell you that this is indicative of any number of things, except the obvious, that perhaps there actually was a global flood…..funny that.
Where was I? Yes, Tolkien and Lewis both being men of strong convictions would certainly draw from their own belief system, so a resurrection allegory is naturally based in the story of Christ, as one certainly has to include the nature of the author in any analysis of literature.
I really need coffee. You people and your warm beds…. y’all realize I just got home from work right? :P
Lion Jesus would straight-up claw and eat Wizard Jesus.
The end.
haha! nice. i… think i would like to find out though…
A part of me would have to with Wizard Jesus, but Lion Jesus could be pretty cunning and definitely strike with holy claws before Wizard Jesus was able to transcend into an unstoppable force. So I would have to agree with the last panel and hope we never have to find out.
If Max had said Gandalf the Gray, I would pick him. He wears down the lion with his power before before being ripped to shreds and then comes back as Gandalf the White to finish the job.
Thanks always Noxx for your knowledge and insight. :]
I’d go with Lion Jesus.
Sounds like an episode idea for Deadliest Warrior!
Id say the only chance lion has against wizard would be if he could stalk & pounce & take wizard down before he had a chance to cast anything
The answer to who would win is quite clear…
…
…
Buddy Jesus would win.
LOL. Awesome. this comic alone has sold me on your strip.
@Noxx–while the nature of the author needs to be considered in analyzing literature, you also have consider the author’s intent with the work. While Tolkien was deeply religious, he also was a scholar whose research in historical linguistics and Anglo-Saxon literature led him to write the Lord of the Rings as a mythology for Britain. He pulled in influences from many cultures, especially early Germanic mythology, with which he was obsessed early in his academic career.
Lewis, on the other hand, was writing a Christian allegory with Narnia, so the direct connection of Aslan to Christ is much more solid than to Gandalf’s character arc.
Does this remind anyone else of Ricky Bobby’s dinner prayer discussion?
I’d have to say Aslan comes out on top here, just by the nature of the two characters and how they’re presented in their respective works. Aslan is the more overt Christ allegory; he encompasses not only the sacrifice and resurrection of Christ but also Christ’s messianic and divine nature. So Aslan is in fact God made flesh for Narnia, in the same way that Christ is God made flesh for our world.
But while Gandalf and his fellow wizards are clearly among the most powerful beings in Middle Earth, they are kept quite distinct from Iluvatar (God) and even below the Ainur (angels). Essentially Gandalf represents the Christian ideal of sacrifice and resurrection, without ever actually achieving the Godhead of Christ (and Aslan).
And for what it’s worth, in the big Christ-allegory Smackdown, they’d both destroy Billy Budd. Just sayin.
Noxx- There are plenty of folks in natty jackets who will tell you that the flood might have been an actual event in history too. The Black Sea Deluge theory is just one of many theories that I think might be plausible. Another is the draining of Lake Agassiz at the end of the last Ice Age. Another, less dramatic possibility is that ancient cultures were trying to explain the discovery of seashells and fish fossils found on mountain tops.
There are plenty of theories out there. What I think you won’t find is an accepted theory that supports the idea of a complete, and worldwide flood. If nothing else, such a theory begs the question, what happened to all the water?
I have realized I need to read this strip more.
And I can see the Wizard Jesus vs. Lion Jesus as a T-shirt.
But the problem is…while Gandalf may represent Jesus, Aslan actually IS Jesus. I say, Aslan for the win.
Ehhh, I’d say that Jesus knows how to wield a sword. And just be full of foot-to-back of pants-action.
sooo I wanted to comment but then realized i was outclassed by all of the guys on here actually discussing the idea of Aslan vs Gandalf….I need to study this discussion further.
You are SUCH a NERD! I love this! Oh my gosh I’m crying here, this is too good hahaha